The 'ac no-date'
- Walther P38 Serial Number Database
- Walther P38 Serial Numbers Lookup Free Reverse
- Walther P38 Serial Number Chart
- Walther P38 Serial Number Guide
- Walther P38 Serial Numbers Date
- German P38 Pistol Serial Numbers
I have a Walther p38 (serial number #3980 d) with matching holster. It has the same stamped emblems (eagles and swastikas mentioned by others). It was brought back from Europe by my grandfather after WWII. What does the single letter after the numbers mean?) Can you help me trace its origin? Post-war P38 serial number versus date production chart This information is taken only from original, serial number matching pistols. Serial Number Caliber Slide Legend Date Date Location Commercial (E/N)? 001xxx 9x19mm P38 5/57 Slide No 016xxxE 9x19mm P38 62 Frame Yes 165xxx 9x19mm P38 2/ 62 Slide No. Choose your Firearm. Results filtered. By Photos Browse By Photo By Series MOD HP 'AC' CODES. By Model 'AC40' WALTHER COMMERCIAL H Prefix.
Original, restored, and faked.
Produced for a little over a month in 1940 in a quantity of about 2500, the ac no-date is one of the harder variations to find, especially in a condition that collectors desire. After five years of war and 60+ more years of use or abuse, most are not in pristine condition. Like any rare pistol (or just about anything rare or valuable), it becomes the target of deception artists. Below are three ac no-date pistols. One is original, one has been restored (refinished), and one is an outright fake.
Serial number 9778 is in a condition typical of a pistol that saw use throughout the entire duration of World War II. While its finish is quite worn, the action is still tight and the bore is excellent. It retains its original configuration except for the matching magazines. Almost every small part is stamped with the German acceptance stamp (e/359) with the exception of the springs and the sear and hammer pins. All serialized parts match: frame, barrel, slide, locking block, and grips.
Serial number 7844 has been restored but still has all matching serial numbers (less the magazine), and all appropriate small parts bear the acceptance marking.
Serial number 8765 is a complete fake. It is made of World War II parts, but several P.38 experts have examined this pistol and have determined every serialized component has been re-stamped to make a 'matching' gun. Unfortunately this pistol was passed off as legitimate. Examining this pistol closely reveals some of the errors made by the unscrupulous individual who produced this fake.
The first and most obvious is the fact the right grip is made by Julius Posselt, and is over two years too early to appear on a pistol made in 1940 (this grip would be most appropriate on a pistol manufactured by Spreewerk). Even more interesting is the fact the the right grip has a poor attempt at a Walther acceptance marking on the inside. The Julius Posselt grip can be identified by the five 'broken lines' around the grip screw, vice the six broken line style used by the other manufacturers.
Next, not all small parts are acceptance marked as they should be, although most are. Some of the incorrect parts are visible without any disassembly of the pistol (the hammer and the decocker/safety lever), while the others would require some disassembly of the pistol to see that they lack the e/359 marking (the sear, ejector, firing pin retaining pin, and firing pin lock lifter). The finish of the hammer is not the high-gloss blue found on the early Walther pistols - it came from a mid to late-war pistol.
Finally, all of the serial numbers have been re-stamped to match. It should be noted that in addition to committing fraud by passing this pistol off as legitimate (assuming the seller did so knowingly), the ATF takes a dim view of re-stamping the frame/receiver serial number of any firearm, even if the original number is re-stamped. It is a felony to deface or change the frame serial number.
The following pictures allow a comparison of the size and font of the component serial numbers. Note that the number 7 has a 'tail' on the upper left part of the digit in the Times New Roman style font, vice the correct Arial style font. The frame serial numbers are seen below (click on the thumbnails to enlarge).
In addition to the font issue, the numbers on the faked slide are noticeably smaller than is correct.
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The same font problem is seen on the barrel serial numbers.
Since an unserialized slide is hard to come by, the old serial number on pistol 8765 was removed by buffing or grinding. As a result, the left side slide rail is thinner than the right. This can be seen by the naked eye when the slide is removed and viewed upside-down. Measuring the slide with a micrometer verifies this.
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An easy check that does not require any measurement or even removing the slide from the pistol is to check the clearance between the slide and the safety/decocker lever. Notice the much larger gap on the fake pistol because so much metal was removed from the slide when obliterating the old serial number.
Another clue is that when the original serial number was removed from the fake slide, it produced a sharp edge at the top of the left vertical surface of the slide. The other pistols have a much more rounded contour (as does the right side of the fake slide) where the side of the slide transitions to the rounded top half.
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While un-numbered 'armorer's spare' barrels are much easier to come by than un-numbered frames or slides, it appears here too a serial number was removed as evidenced by the measurements below.
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The locking block suffered a similar fate - its old number was ground off and a new one stamped (once again in the wrong front). Note the polished area where the serial number is stamped on the right side block.
Here are a few more comparison pictures.
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Walther P38 Serial Number Database
In summary, while pistol serial number 8765 is an interesting study in counterfeiting, it is worth no more than 'shooter' price for use as a range gun or display piece. The majority of the signs that reveal this pistol to be a fake would be hard to see without a hands-on disassembly inspection (there were other signs that were not detailed in this article - no need to aid future counterfeiters). Some could be spotted if the pistol were for sale on-line and had excellent, detailed pictures. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. When buying a high-end pistol such as this one was alleged to be, the buyer should view the pistol in person if at all possible. If not, demand an inspection period. Caveat emptor!
Welcome to ALPS
Information, photos, references, and trivia on the WW2 Walther P.38 and post-war P38 pistol. If you wish to link to this page, please link only to the main page, not sub-pages or documents. Please do not rip off my PDF files or pictures for your own site. Thanks.
Updated 20 Feb 2014 17:33 -0800
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Most Recent updates:
Two more 'BTH12' pistols have been reported. See 'BTH12' under 'Pistols'
Added 'When was my post-war pistol made?' to 'Information'
Added another late date AC frame pistol to 'Pistols'
Added some late war pistols to 'Pistols'
| Post-war volume I Post-war parts gun, two guns in .30 Luger, and a high-polish gun. | Late date AC framevariation. Warren Buxton calls these the 'oddballs of oddballs.' Who made these - and when? | byf44 FN slide. | Post-war volume II P38 surplus, P1 surplus, P38 commercial, and P4 surplus guns. |
| Consecutive serial number SVW-45s. | Consecutive serial number SVW-46s. | Post-warP38 in 7.65mm Parabellum. | East German P.38s. Reworked wartime ac40, ac44, and an East German manufactured gun. |
| Steel frame P38from Earl's Repair Service. | ac45 matching 'c' block. | Post-warP.38 in 5.6mm (.22 LR). | A Zero series and 'a' prefix Spreewerkreworked for use in post-war East Germany. |
| The Czechoslovakian Vz46. | byf44 police issue with British markings. | Commemorative '100 Jahre' P38marking the 100th year anniversary of Walther. | Unknown BTH12 marking on several P.38s. |
| Norwegian military surplus P38. | Mixmaster P.38 with WW2 German, East German, Czech, and British markings. | The ultra-rare 'ac no-date' - and how to spot a fake. | Some things you can do to a P.38. Please don't! WARNING: disturbing! |
| French Mausers 1945 to 1946. | Gotterdammerung - some pistols from the last months of the war. | Another version of the late date AC frame pistol. |
Pistol Information
An excellent article by Peter Kokalis on thewartime P.38 pistolcan be found here, and another article on thepost-war P38here.
My post-war pistol has no date or date code - about when was it manufactured? You can get a rough estimate based upon these observed pistols.
Need to replace a broken WW2 slide part with a post-war part, and don't know if the new part will fit? Read the slide part compatibility guide. Note: this information is intended as a guide only. I am not a gunsmith. If you do not have working knowledge of the P.38 pistol, consult a competent gunsmith before attempting to effect repairs to your P.38.
Over the long term, will oil cause bakelite grips to deteriorate? An attempt to find out startshere.And continuesafter one year... and finally ends at three plus years.
Walther P38 Serial Numbers Lookup Free Reverse
Atarian's quick reference magazine guide.Helps to identify which magazine is correct for your pistol.
Atarian's post-war reproduction and aftermarket grip guide.Some of the currently available non-World War II grips for the P.38.
Can a 'dipped' pistol be 'un-dipped?' The answer is yes, and quite successfully. Take a look atzero series cyq serial number 030.
Drawings and Manuals
P38 Owner's Manual (multilingual - 4.8 MB). P38 Owner's Manual v2 (multilingual - 6.2 MB). P38 Operating Instructions (multilingual - 1.2 MB, source: Walther Germany). P38 Owner's Manual (1 MB, source: Interarms(?)). P38 Owner's Manual (edited for clarity - Thanks to Quentin for providing this).
German military drawings of the 9mm Patrone: page 1, page 2, page 3, and page 4.
P.38 manual from 1940 (German) - Thanks to Johan and Ron Clarin for providing this.
P.38 illustrated parts breakdown (German - 95KB, source: Walther Germany).
Explanation of the markings on a post-war P38/P1 (source: Federal Foreign Office – Division 241, Germany).
Time Wasters
Test your P.38 knowledge with the P.38 quiz!
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| four (new!) |
Auction Antics - Fantastic stories and overpriced pistols:
| Most expensive P.38 ever listed (this was a typo...) |
| Second most expensive P.38 (...that this genius later referenced!) |
| Best story/crappiest p.38 ever? |
Articles and Advertisements
Information on the P.38from the 2008 Walther catalog.
The Defense Intelligence Agency's Small Caliber Ammunition Identification Guide. German ammunition section (213kb) or the entire document (10.1Mb).
Small arms section of the Handbook on German Military Forces.
Walther P38 Serial Number Chart
Pricing ofStoeger's Mod HPs and Lugers(1948).
Stoeger's guide to World War II pistols circa 1948 (page 1, page 2).
Miscellaneous
A baker's dozen of Walther post-war slide legend variations(this is far from all-inclusive).
Here's what a P.38 frame looks like before the machining process begins.
Information Exchange Pursuant to the OSCE Document on Small Arms and Light Weapons 2003, 2008, 2010. Note in 2002 the United States was by far the largest importer of German 'Revolvers and Self-Loading Pistols' with 1,040,985 imported (of 1,082,797 - the balance of 41,812 or about 4% going to 20 other countries), while the Germans destroyed only 5,666 'surplus' pistols. In 2009 the US imported none and 17,520 surplus pistols were destroyed (none were exported to any country). See Annexes 2 and 3.
Walther P38 Serial Number Guide
Patent Information
Fritz Walther's 'automatic pistol,' patent number 2135992 dated November 8, 1938 (English).
Fritz Walther's 'automatic firearm,' patent number 2145328 dated January 31, 1939 (English).
Walther pistol patents 1926 to 1942 (German).
| Patent | Date | Page Number | ||||
| 433937 | Sept. 1926 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
| 664926 | Sept. 1938 | 1 | 2 | 3 | ||
| 677094 | June 1939 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
| 678067 | July 1939 | 1 | 2 | 3 | ||
| 706038 | May 1941 | 1 | 2 | 3 | ||
| 715176 | Dec. 1941 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
| 721702 | June 1942 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
| 722332 | July 1942 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
| 726501 | Oct. 1942 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 |
Walther P38 Serial Numbers Date
Interarms was a long-time importer of products from Walther and many other manufacturers. Browse some of their catalogs here.
German P38 Pistol Serial Numbers
| 1989 Interarms catalog.Walther pistols and target rifles, Rossi, Astra, bolt action rifles and barreled receivers, and more. 5' by 7' catalog. | 1976 Interarms catalog. Walther & Mauser pistols, revolvers, bolt-action rifles, ammunition, optics and accessories. 8.5' by 11' catalog. |
The 1979 Interarms catalog features one of the last Mauser offerings, the HSc American Eagle, and the Parabellum. Complete line of Walther pistols plus revolvers, long guns from Walther and others, revolvers, and more. 8.5' by 11' catalog. | The 1983 Interarms catalog features the Mauser cartridge counter Luger, Walther pistols and target rifles, SIG, Star, and Astra pistols, rifles, dragoons, and SVW45 & SVW46 P.38s. 8.5' by 11' catalog. |
| 1985 Interarms catalog featuring Walther presentation pistols, Walther target rifles and pistols, Astra, Star and SIG-Sauer pistols, the Steyr AUG rifle, etc. 8.5' by 11' catalog. | 1995 Interarms catalog. Walther PP series, P38, TPH, and P5. Also Star, Rossi, No. 3 Enfields, and Norinco. 8.5' x 11' catalog. Download the PDF. |